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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok I am so confused on which way to go. I drove my buddies canam commander 1000 and now I wanna throw rocks at my rhino! I know there is guys running strokers like WV hotrod, superchikn, kronik. I don't under stand why most the engine builders say stay away from a stroker. I know the hot rods cranks had cheap bearings and rod causing them to blow cases apart but what if I get my stock crank stroked +4mm, trued,balanced and welded by crank works. Then if I have the cases split why not go 108mm piston and a HDD5050 cam? Would that be a ticking time bomb? I know I would also up grade the oil cooler and radiator. I currently have UNI filter, stage 2 rhino hot cam, HC CP 11-1 piston, MSD ingnition, dynatek coil pack, muzzy duals, racers edge head studs, /// airdams stage 4 clutch mods, gold secondary spring and 16g greaseless roller weights. I ride trails and mud so 90% of my riding is 0-40 mph I don't ever run WFO. HELP guys what's the best setup to get more out of this pig without blowing it up! Oh I am running the 28" radial outlaws which are pretty heavy 36lb fronts and 38lb rears.
 

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IMO, Save your money. Just do a Rotax swap if you want more HP and have to keep your Rhino. No matter how much you build a Rhino Motor, it will never be a V-twin. And especially for low speed trail riding, thats really what you need.

A fully built 660/700 motor can be made really fast, but only at a very small RPM range, which means it will not be as good for drivability as a stock Rotax 800 V-twin.
 

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IMO, Save your money. Just do a Rotax swap if you want more HP and have to keep your Rhino. No matter how much you build a Rhino Motor, it will never be a V-twin. And especially for low speed trail riding, thats really what you need.

A fully built 660/700 motor can be made really fast, but only at a very small RPM range, which means it will not be as good for drivability as a stock Rotax 800 V-twin.
Uh, X2!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was afraid yall were gonna say that! Sure seems like alot of work! Especially finding a donor at a reasonable price. Might just have to give up on Yamaha coming out with a Vtwin UTV and go buy me a commander 1000. I don't like the crisco lock on it but every thing else seems good especially the power. I love my rhino we have been through alot together but it just lacks in the power department! What to do? What to do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I love my stroker ... 2500 miles & still going strong ... I'm building 2 more right now. But I don't dune at all so that may be the difference =)
Hey WV did you upgrade your cooling? Are you running the hot rods +5mm crank still? I know I read that you were worried about it and was going to change it. Guess I could do like superchikn get a +5mm hot rods crank send it to crank works and have Yamaha bearings but on and a Carrillo rod. Whats your dyno numbers on your 770 setup? Sorry for the blast of questions at you! Lol I really like you setup especially how you pull that commander on utube!
 

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I love my stroker ... 2500 miles & still going strong ... I'm building 2 more right now. But I don't dune at all so that may be the difference =)
Hey WV did you upgrade your cooling? Are you running the hot rods +5mm crank still? I know I read that you were worried about it and was going to change it. Guess I could do like superchikn get a +5mm hot rods crank send it to crank works and have Yamaha bearings but on and a Carrillo rod. Whats your dyno numbers on your 770 setup? Sorry for the blast of questions at you! Lol I really like you setup especially how you pull that commander on utube!
I'm getting an upgraded radiator with my new motor but I currently have a heater which is like a 2nd radiator ... we put the vents to the heater blowing up & under the fender in the summer & still use it to cool =) I do still have the +5 stroker & I am still worried about it LOL. Going +6 this time...+ 8 next time..lol We sent both of ours to Falicon but have heard good things on both. I actually haven't had it on a dyno in years. LOL We just tune it our self with the Yoshi data box.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I love my stroker ... 2500 miles & still going strong ... I'm building 2 more right now. But I don't dune at all so that may be the difference =)
Hey WV did you upgrade your cooling? Are you running the hot rods +5mm crank still? I know I read that you were worried about it and was going to change it. Guess I could do like superchikn get a +5mm hot rods crank send it to crank works and have Yamaha bearings but on and a Carrillo rod. Whats your dyno numbers on your 770 setup? Sorry for the blast of questions at you! Lol I really like you setup especially how you pull that commander on utube!
I'm getting an upgraded radiator with my new motor but I currently have a heater which is like a 2nd radiator ... we put the vents to the heater blowing up & under the fender in the summer & still use it to cool =) I do still have the +5 stroker & I am still worried about it LOL. Going +6 this time...+ 8 next time..lol We sent both of ours to Falicon but have heard good things on both. I actually haven't had it on a dyno in years. LOL We just tune it our self with the Yoshi data box.
Do you know what's the most stroke you can do without having to machine the cases for clearance? 2500 miles is good mine is an 09 model and I just rolled 1000 miles. Wish there was a reputable engine builder close to Texas! I am very comfortable in building top ends but I have never done a bottom end.
 

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Do you know what's the most stroke you can do without having to machine the cases for clearance? 2500 miles is good mine is an 09 model and I just rolled 1000 miles. Wish there was a reputable engine builder close to Texas! I am very comfortable in building top ends but I have never done a bottom end.
+8 is about as big as you can go before clearancing (there is no "machining" for this, it's manual labor). You can go a lot higher on the stroke, but you start to run into a lot of other issues that make case clearancing look easy... The case gets "machined" for the bore hole, if you go with a 108 or bigger jug.

And to be honest, depending on what you are going to do with your rhino, going with, say, a +12 or higher on the stroke just might not be worth it...
 

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8mm stroke and 105 bore

I'm building the above 660, the 8mm fits no problem, but when I jigged up the cases after welding them up I was amazed at how thin the case is at the sides as there is an oil galley port on one side that if you went over 105mm you might have to weld up and do something with..The cylnder floats or doesn't contact the cases once bolted up but to go over 105 I'd like to see..I think if you cut the counterbalance shaft to clear the crank going with a 110 or 112 or 115 stroker would be interesting,but the rod ratio would be terrrible, I run a 1/2" spacer and a 149mm rod on mine and it yields something like a 1;61 rod ratio where a 660 is around a 164 ratio if my memory serves me right...either way its still a single cylnder motor on the ragged edge...we need a 1200 vtwin with a belt drive and 10-1 compression would be nice,tons of torque and 120hp....then I'd be happy...
 

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Cameron; Not sure if you were replying to my post or not, but I'm a 700 guy and was only talking about the 700 ;) Largest stroke I've seen on a 700 motor is 105mm (+21mm stroke) These motors don't last, purpose built and not seen in Rhino's. The Rhino 700 though will take a 108 jug (case bore cut to 4.540(OD), cylinder will prodtrude to a depth of 1.320, stock case bore is 4.325(OD) and the cylinder protrudes 1.300).

Again, lack of sleep is making me read things funny, take no offense Cameron if you weren't talking to me.
 

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Rowdy; In my own experience and personal opinion, stroking the motor isn't the "ticking time bomb" that it's made out to be. I can fully understand why the good engine builders want to stay away from stroking the motor, but then again, they should also be advising against overbore as well..... SS/SB is a safe bet, good builders don't want to see your motor back in because something that's been modified broke.

Something to keep in mind, and while everyone has their preference on who they get to build their crank, I prefer Falicon. To me, the Carillo is a tough rod, but it's way too heavy. And totally uneccessary for the power being produced in these motors. Everyone has their opinion, and I won't say they're wrong. Lighter to me is better, spins up quicker and has less parasitic loss. When a rod fails in these 700's, it's not because the rod was weak, it's because something seized. Yes the rod bends after that, but it wasn't the rod strength itself that caused the problem... Rods have come a long way. Even the HotRods cranks have bronze bushings in the small ends now. DLC pins are avaialable for almost every application in the 700. But... I wouldn't go with yamaha crank bearings. There's better options.

As far as balancing the rotating assembly after you decide on what stroke/bore/piston setup, remember this: you can't balance a single cylinder engine. But.. You mentioned a particular speed you normally drive. What you actually try and "balance" for in a single is the rpm range you normally see. So when you get your assembly balanced, explain to them the rpm range, and you'll have to figure that one out yourself based on the average speed your Rhino sees.

The 5050 cam is a great cam, I run it myself. You'll have to upgrade your valve springs (lift on the 5050 requires it) and of course get the exhaust rockers cut. Some people weld the rocker rollers much like they weld their crank pin/webs, others "pin" them. Web sells the shaved exhaust rockers, not sure if they weld the rollers or not. In your application, I doubt it's needed anyways.

As far as stroking your motor and running a high compression piston.. Remember that stroke adds to the compression. If you want a pump gas build, don't be going with an 11:1 piston. You WILL need race gas mixed in with your premium...

And... You will need to upgrade your fuel controller. The new model MSD looks appealing, with 3d fuel and 3d timing, but with no O2 sensor provision to "autotune" you would need to find a Dyno close by to generate you a proper map for both fuel and timing curve to take full advantage of your setup.
 

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700

didn't c that in the first post, im trying to get my hands on a 700 engine,I'm old school 660,cant hang with you hi dollar FI boys...ha ha ha.
 

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Rowdy: A quick edit... James is able to get away with running an 11:1 piston in his stroked motor due to the fact that his JE piston isn't a corrected deck height piston. It sits down in the hole far enough to compensate for the added compression ratio of the +5 stroke. Gaskets he's running come into play as well... I like the JE pistons, they're light. But.. Not a lot of material on the top to fly cut if you do manage to correct the deck by shaving the jug and running say +2 valves... There's a bit of math involved in figuring out clearance without having to "clay" it to find out. Not that hard to do. Also, James I believe runs at some elevation, correct me if I'm wrong James, and this also leads to not having to run the race gas at 11:1 and +5 stroke. Your mileage may vary, just food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Rowdy: A quick edit... James is able to get away with running an 11:1 piston in his stroked motor due to the fact that his JE piston isn't a corrected deck height piston. It sits down in the hole far enough to compensate for the added compression ratio of the +5 stroke. Gaskets he's running come into play as well... I like the JE pistons, they're light. But.. Not a lot of material on the top to fly cut if you do manage to correct the deck by shaving the jug and running say +2 valves... There's a bit of math involved in figuring out clearance without having to "clay" it to find out. Not that hard to do. Also, James I believe runs at some elevation, correct me if I'm wrong James, and this also leads to not having to run the race gas at 11:1 and +5 stroke. Your mileage may vary, just food for thought.
Thanks for all the info guys great stuff! I don't think I will go more than +5 stroke. I was looking at a oem crank stroked +4mm with a -2mm raptor rod at BEB specs and 37mm rod pin assembly completely balanced for a 105.5 wiesco piston. It is at unleashed utv for $785 would that be a good reliable setup?
 

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x

decreasing the length in the rod is a receipe for early piston and ring wear and premature oblonging of the cylnder...but its only money...my two cents...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
decreasing the length in the rod is a receipe for early piston and ring wear and premature oblonging of the cylnder...but its only money...my two cents...
I figured the -2mm rod was for piston to valve clearance. Can you run a stock length 135mm rod with a +4 mm crank and +1mm valves without clearance issues on a correct deck height piston?
 
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