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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i am new to this forum,had my 07 660 sport for almost 3 years now,no major problems with it other then what would consider normal stuff,like changing brakes and the hub assemblies.but about a week ago my 19 year old was using it and it just lost power and died ,tried jumping it,did not work so i towed it home,i replaced the battery cause it was bad.which made it go from just the relay clicking to turning over,but very slowly.so i have 12.9 volts at the battery and the voltage at the starter goes from about 9 down to 6 when i am cranking it.i am thinking the relay,but i thought when they go no voltage gets by.not sure how to test the relay or if a bad starter will draw less voltage.just looking for some advice on what to do?
 

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Hi Badboy,
I spoke with our wiring guru Jesse and here's what he had to say. Good luck!
"Sounds like a starter solenoid or the main ground to the battery. I would run a jumper from the battery to the terminal on the starter. If it cranks normally, change the solenoid. If it does the same, check the ground. I believe the ground runs to the engine and the starter is grounded through the bolts that mount it."
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
where is the solenoid,all i see is the starter motor.i also noticed a green wire with a red stripe coming off the 4 pin on the cdi box that was bare,was wondering if anyone would know what that wire is for and if that could be part of my problem
 

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where is the solenoid,all i see is the starter motor.i also noticed a green wire with a red stripe coming off the 4 pin on the cdi box that was bare,was wondering if anyone would know what that wire is for and if that could be part of my problem
The Yamahas do not have a "solenoid" per-se, if you are thinking solenoid that pushes a gear into engagement with the crankshaft. There is a starter relay that makes engagement of the electrical power to the starter motor. There is a one way clutch that allows the starter motor to turn the crankshaft if the starter is spinning faster than the crankshaft. The crankshaft over-runs the starter motor once the engine starts.

The starter relay is the big relay in the battery box. You will also see that there are 2 fuses piggy back on it. Trace the big Red battery cable from the battery positive and you will find the starter relay on the end of it.

Another way to tell if that relay is faulty is to put a heavy metal tool across the 2 big terminals on it. The starter motor should then crank the engine. The ground connection that was mentioned is on the passengers side toward the front end of the engine. You will find a metal post protruding from the side of the engine case, sort of below the gearshift linkage. The big Black battery negative cable is bolted onto this. Check that the connection is tight and free of corrosion. Also check all of the other connections involving the big battery cables for tightness and corrosion, including on the battery itself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i have cleaned the engine ground.on the outgoing side of the starter relay the voltage drops going to the starter(while cranking the engine).how much of a drop is acceptable?if the bearings where seized in the starter motor,how would i tell,cause it still turns over.if i pull the starter out and it still turns over slow then i am assuming that the starter is bad.
 

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i have cleaned the engine ground.on the outgoing side of the starter relay the voltage drops going to the starter(while cranking the engine).how much of a drop is acceptable?if the bearings where seized in the starter motor,how would i tell,cause it still turns over.if i pull the starter out and it still turns over slow then i am assuming that the starter is bad.
It would seem to me that the most likely cause for your problem is a weak battery. Have you checked your battery voltage? 12.7 Volts across the battery terminals with the battery at rest is fully charged. 12.0 Volts is half discharged. 11.5 Volts is essentially a dead battery.

Batteries can also just not be capable of delivering sufficient current. Jumpering in a known good fully charged battery is another way to eliminate the possibility of a weak battery.
 

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My battery is new
Believe it or not.... Even a brand new battery can be low on charge. A battery sitting on a shelf will eventually simply go dead. While monitoring the battery voltage with a voltmeter, turn your headlights on. You should see very little voltage droop. If it is not right up there close to 12.7 Volts, put a charger on it.

If that test passes, then pull the starter motor and power it up on the bench. hold it down as it will likely want to roll over when you start it spinning. Positive voltage on the terminal and negative voltage to the case. You should see only a few tenths of a volt droop on the battery voltage when the motor is up to speed, since there is no load on the motor.
 

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the relay shouldnt drop a ton they build up carbon as they get older and thats one of the ways they fail they cant transfer as much current and the motor doesnt spin as fast. i would charge the battery and jump the solenoid as above, if it spins good its likely that.

if not there is also the lack of good ground on this machine. there is a connector in the harness by the battery steve pointed out to me and it was burning. i had to run that to a frame spot i ground down and run an additional engine ground on the driver side from the jug to the chassis, to handle the additional current from starting. mine starts a ton better after that
 

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took the battery out to clean out the battery box,i ran jumper cables from the positive and neg to the startet and ground it out on the frame and the starter does nothing.
You ran starter cables from the battery that you took out of the machine? Positive cable to starter motor terminal post and negative cable to the body of the starter motor? I'm assuming that you did not mean the frame of the vehicle? On a stock Yamaha, the frame of the vehicle is not deliberately grounded to the battery negative cable.

You said that it cranked slowly before? So, now the starter motor is doing nothing now with a direct connection? If you are using the same battery, I would dare say that you have run it down flat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
pulled the starter out and tried it again (with it grounded to the body of the starter motor)plenty of voltage there real close to 13 volts starter did nothing,gonna get a new starter,but was considering changing the relay too.can a bad relay cause it to stall,being that the main power for everything(from the battery)has to go thru it?
 

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pulled the starter out and tried it again (with it grounded to the body of the starter motor)plenty of voltage there real close to 13 volts starter did nothing,gonna get a new starter,but was considering changing the relay too.can a bad relay cause it to stall,being that the main power for everything(from the battery)has to go thru it?
It would seem that your starter motor is indeed going south. If you are electrically proficient, it may be that the brushes are worn out. I doubt that the service manual goes into repairing that and I sort of doubt that Yamaha sells the brushes by themselves anyway.

The relay supplies power only to the starter motor and only while you are cranking it. There is a tap at the battery side terminal that holds a fuse that supplies almost all of the electrical system (assuming a 450 or 660) but it really has nothing to do with the function of the relay itself and does not rely on the relay in any way, other than to support the fuse holder. Are you having power problems with the electrical system, other than the starter motor?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
the only other thing i am trying to figure out is why it stalled in the first place,but i think that might be a fuel filter cause it did the same thing last year and i replaced the filter and that took care of it.my only other ? is the green wire with the red stripe coming off the 4 pin connector on the cdi box.what is that for?there is a small bare spot on it.(its not melted just rubbed bare)i am gonna fix that,but would like to know what its for
 

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the only other thing i am trying to figure out is why it stalled in the first place,but i think that might be a fuel filter cause it did the same thing last year and i replaced the filter and that took care of it.my only other ? is the green wire with the red stripe coming off the 4 pin connector on the cdi box.what is that for?there is a small bare spot on it.(its not melted just rubbed bare)i am gonna fix that,but would like to know what its for
Green/Red goes to the digital dash and also goes to the 4WD control switch. It looks like it gets grounded when you activate the front drive lock switch. It lights up the "Lock" indicator and tells the CDI that it is in lock mode.

This is shown in the wiring diagram at the very end of the service manual. Download a copy of it and you will be able to figure out what each wire color code is connecting to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
i thought my starter was bad,but had it tested at a yamaha dealer,the starter is fine my jumper cables were bad.i am only getting 9 volts on relay(out going to the starter).i have the 12.7 volts going into it.can a relay be going out and still let enough voltage by to cause my slow cranking situation.
 

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i thought my starter was bad,but had it tested at a yamaha dealer,the starter is fine my jumper cables were bad.i am only getting 9 volts on relay(out going to the starter).i have the 12.7 volts going into it.can a relay be going out and still let enough voltage by to cause my slow cranking situation.
You have 12.7 volts coming in to the relay. I assume that you are not trying to crank the starter when you measure this?

You have 9 Volts coming out of the relay. Is the starter motor hooked up to the relay and you turn the key to crank when you measure this voltage?

Measure the voltage coming into the relay while you are cranking the starter motor. You may find that it is drooping down to that 9 Volts as well. If it stays up at 12.7 Volts, then the relay is bad. If it droops to 9 Volts then your battery is weak.
 
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