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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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mysterious CDI issue

Recently purchased an O5' Rhino. Original owner built the car then sold it when the RZR's came onto the scene. I purchased it from the second owner who didn't have any place to drive it. Car only has 30 original hours and in pristine condition. Build includes long travel, elka's, custom roll cage, custom fab roof & opening doors, etc.
When I purchased the car I noticed the digital dash speedo doesn't work and after some research on the forum I thought maybe it was because the CDI currently in the car doesn't support the digital system. The current CDI is an aftermarket Moose brand (long discontinued) which seems to work fine except for the speedo issue. After reading more forum discussion I pulled the trigger on a new 50 Caliber CDI that works with digital speedos. I figured even if it doesn't fix the speedo issue I would have an X-tra CDI.
I installed the 50 Cal CDI, turned the key one position to on accessory and immediately it blew a 10 amp fuse. According to the diagram on the fuse block lid it's the ignition fuse. Replaced the fuse, tried it again and same result. Replaced the fuse a third time, threw the old Moose CDI back in and started right up.
After talking to 50 Cal tech support they recommended putting a larger fuse...a suggestion I was very hesitant to do. they said the newer CDI's inject more juice on initial start up so after putting in a 20 amp fuse with the new 50 Cal CDI I tried it. Turned key on to first position accessory. Dash lights stayed on, fuse didn't blow but within a few seconds I started smelling an electrical/electronic burning smell and immediately turned the key off.
So I put the 10 amp back in, re-installed the old Moose CDI and figured I would send the 50 Cal back. I then discovered some forum discussion about starting the car in gear by pushing down on the brake. Mine doesn't do that so after tracking down the brake switch yellow and brown wires I discovered the brown wire had been cut just before the connector behind dash and rerouted to a grey wire. Not sure where the grey wire goes. I re-attached the wiring as per OEM, yellow to yellow, brown to brown and threw the new 50 Cal back in. Turned the key on...no blown fuses. Turned the engine over and it started. I was ecstatic. My joy was short lived. I turned the key off and then turned it back to the first position accessory and after a few seconds the burning smell came back. Before I was able to turn key off a loud pop and smoke came from my gear position sensor (at least that's what I think it is) just in front of oil filter where the shift linkage is attached. UGH!!!
I didn't know what kind of damage I had done so I threw the old Moose CDI back in, re-routed the brake switch wiring like it was when I purchased it (yellow to yellow/brown to grey) and crossed my fingers. The car started, no issues...all dash lights work OK, shifts OK...doesn't seem to be any permanent damage.
I am pretty much stumped. Hoping someone can shed some light on this issue. I was told some of the older aftermarket CDI's required some re-wiring/routing to work. This car has a 3 batteries with a comprehensive sound system, several PIAA lights, a Black Rhino fuel gauge so I'm not sure what type of wiring mods were performed in the past.
HELP!
Papa SXS
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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No takers? C'mon Rhinoians, somebody has to have some thoughts on this issue.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papa SXS View Post
Recently purchased an O5' Rhino. Original owner built the car then sold it when the RZR's came onto the scene. I purchased it from the second owner who didn't have any place to drive it. Car only has 30 original hours and in pristine condition. Build includes long travel, elka's, custom roll cage, custom fab roof & opening doors, etc.
When I purchased the car I noticed the digital dash speedo doesn't work and after some research on the forum I thought maybe it was because the CDI currently in the car doesn't support the digital system. The current CDI is an aftermarket Moose brand (long discontinued) which seems to work fine except for the speedo issue. After reading more forum discussion I pulled the trigger on a new 50 Caliber CDI that works with digital speedos. I figured even if it doesn't fix the speedo issue I would have an X-tra CDI.
I installed the 50 Cal CDI, turned the key one position to on accessory and immediately it blew a 10 amp fuse. According to the diagram on the fuse block lid it's the ignition fuse. Replaced the fuse, tried it again and same result. Replaced the fuse a third time, threw the old Moose CDI back in and started right up.
After talking to 50 Cal tech support they recommended putting a larger fuse...a suggestion I was very hesitant to do. they said the newer CDI's inject more juice on initial start up so after putting in a 20 amp fuse with the new 50 Cal CDI I tried it. Turned key on to first position accessory. Dash lights stayed on, fuse didn't blow but within a few seconds I started smelling an electrical/electronic burning smell and immediately turned the key off.
So I put the 10 amp back in, re-installed the old Moose CDI and figured I would send the 50 Cal back. I then discovered some forum discussion about starting the car in gear by pushing down on the brake. Mine doesn't do that so after tracking down the brake switch yellow and brown wires I discovered the brown wire had been cut just before the connector behind dash and rerouted to a grey wire. Not sure where the grey wire goes. I re-attached the wiring as per OEM, yellow to yellow, brown to brown and threw the new 50 Cal back in. Turned the key on...no blown fuses. Turned the engine over and it started. I was ecstatic. My joy was short lived. I turned the key off and then turned it back to the first position accessory and after a few seconds the burning smell came back. Before I was able to turn key off a loud pop and smoke came from my gear position sensor (at least that's what I think it is) just in front of oil filter where the shift linkage is attached. UGH!!!
I didn't know what kind of damage I had done so I threw the old Moose CDI back in, re-routed the brake switch wiring like it was when I purchased it (yellow to yellow/brown to grey) and crossed my fingers. The car started, no issues...all dash lights work OK, shifts OK...doesn't seem to be any permanent damage.
I am pretty much stumped. Hoping someone can shed some light on this issue. I was told some of the older aftermarket CDI's required some re-wiring/routing to work. This car has a 3 batteries with a comprehensive sound system, several PIAA lights, a Black Rhino fuel gauge so I'm not sure what type of wiring mods were performed in the past.
HELP!
Papa SXS

Well you have some folks reading your post but it's an unusual problem you got. Like others, I have not been down that road so I'm not really in a position to help but don't give up yet - let your post brew for awhile and with any luck someone may have "been there-done that".
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 04:14 PM
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mysterious CDI issue

Ill sit down and read it again tonight, i got cofused with everything u wrote. Been workin on jeep today


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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 06:29 PM
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Out of curiousity do u have 2blue relays in ur battery box? All the rest are black


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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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I removed the main battery box to replace battery so here is a picture of the wiring. The 2 blue connectors aren't connected to anything...just hanging out in the bottom of the battery box.
There seems to be 4 relays...the white and 3 black (the black one at top of pic is most likely a HID light switch relay). Everything you see is as it is in box except for loose hot and ground wires which go directly to battery terminals and CDI not connected.
Papa SXS
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Last edited by papa SXS; 10-07-2019 at 10:40 PM. Reason: added info
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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PS...the picture didn't orient correctly when it was attached...it needs to be rotated 90 degrees Clockwise.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 05:46 AM
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There is no older CDI that requires rewiring, sounds like this new one is just bad.

The speed sensor is probably bad and the real reason your dash didn't work.

Only using a grizzly CDI results in the speedo not working correctly, seems like it still worked just didn't read right.

But there has never been a rhino CDI that didn't work with the dash

Todd
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Hunterworks and Brian Lee Rhino...thanks for your responses.
Everything works on digital dash except speedo. I don't know if the problem is associated with the CDI...I was just going off of some threads I had read as well as many of the aftermarket CDI's on the market advertise the CDI is "compatible" with digital dash's. One of the techs at Black Rhino (those guys are great by the way...they take time to discuss Rhino issues even if you aren't a customer) told me the first gen CDI's (05/06/??) required some wiring mods to work. Maybe Grizzly CDI's were used before Rhino CDI's were available...?
I don't really care if the speedo works, I just want to be confident I can throw in a newer CDI. It's possible the 50 Cal CDI is bad, but not probable. Sending it back to get a replacement so I guess we will see. Not sure if you saw the previous response from Brian Lee Rhino...he asked about some blue relays. Sent a picture of my current battery box wiring and hoping someone can determine if it looks correct. It appears the blue connectors/relays in question have been deleted as nothing is connected or plugged into them.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papa SXS View Post
Hunterworks and Brian Lee Rhino...thanks for your responses.
Everything works on digital dash except speedo. I don't know if the problem is associated with the CDI...I was just going off of some threads I had read as well as many of the aftermarket CDI's on the market advertise the CDI is "compatible" with digital dash's. One of the techs at Black Rhino (those guys are great by the way...they take time to discuss Rhino issues even if you aren't a customer) told me the first gen CDI's (05/06/??) required some wiring mods to work. Maybe Grizzly CDI's were used before Rhino CDI's were available...?
I don't really care if the speedo works, I just want to be confident I can throw in a newer CDI. It's possible the 50 Cal CDI is bad, but not probable. Sending it back to get a replacement so I guess we will see. Not sure if you saw the previous response from Brian Lee Rhino...he asked about some blue relays. Sent a picture of my current battery box wiring and hoping someone can determine if it looks correct. It appears the blue connectors/relays in question have been deleted as nothing is connected or plugged into them.
Papa SXS
There were no early Rhino CDI's that required wiring, ONLY the use of a grizzly CDI before the rhino ones came out and you had to put a voltage refulator on the speed sensor input

That is not your issue, seems you have a bad cdi or a grizzly one from them.

STill think your speed sensor is probably bad
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Gotcha. Let's back up a bit. Any ideas why someone would re-route the brake switch wiring? As I indicated previously, the brown wire from brake switch had been spliced into a grey wire (not sure where it lands). When I first put in the 50 Cal it blew the 10 amp fuse in fuse block. When I rewired the brake switch back to OEM the 50 Cal CDI worked, but then the popping/smoke coming from gear sensor area. The wiring was done at the Yamaha dealer when the car was built.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 09:37 AM
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That I can't help with, just not sure on that one. I only know CDI's cause the CDI as you know it originally came about because of us way back when
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Hunterworks...hoping someone may have some insight on the brake switch wiring question. Brian Lee Rhino...any thoughts on the blue connectors in the picture? Are they the "blue relays" you were referring to?
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 04:50 PM
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mysterious CDI issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa SXS View Post
I removed the main battery box to replace battery so here is a picture of the wiring. The 2 blue connectors aren't connected to anything...just hanging out in the bottom of the battery box.
There seems to be 4 relays...the white and 3 black (the black one at top of pic is most likely a HID light switch relay). Everything you see is as it is in box except for loose hot and ground wires which go directly to battery terminals and CDI not connected.
Papa SXS


I have never owned a 660, i had the 450 and now the 700 so i dont have a manual for urs to check the wireing diagrams, sorry man
Been along time since i did the digital dash swap, but when u do the digital dash swap you remove the two blue relays that would plug into those 2blue connections, so nothing will plug into those connections now, just leave them like that

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Last edited by Brian Lee Rhino450; 10-08-2019 at 04:59 PM.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 05:19 PM
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I can't seem to get a clear pic of your battery box harness.
I've been using 50 Cal Racing on all my machines from Rhino's to our Can-Am X3 race buggy. One of our sponsors. They are awesome. Sounds to me you have a defective CDI. If you're popping fuses right out of the gate, then there is a direct short. A bigger fuse will only create a bigger fire. The wire issue was probably to bypass the start function for racing. Meaning you can start with no brake and in any gear. I raced Rhinos back in 04' till about 08 then moved up to bigger money pits. Lmk if I can help. The CDI has to be bad and if it wasn't, it definitely is now. BTW put that 10 amp fuse back. The wiring is not engineered to hold the load of a larger current
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