what secondary spring to run? - Yamaha Rhino Forum - Rhino Forums.net
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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what secondary spring to run?

I have a 660 rhino need help choosing a secondary spring.
660 rhino all stock soon to have 26" or 28" moto mtc or big horn tires

1mm shim with 16g weights..Orange or purple spring??
That setup with a orange spring and UTV sheave on 27s did very well in my last rhino.

Rhino used Trail ride and creek ride
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 04:02 AM
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Orange for sure.

Just happy to be riding again
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 06:32 AM
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orange on 660. the purple will put too much pressure on the belt...iv seen them explode.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbestduner View Post
orange on 660. the purple will put too much pressure on the belt...iv seen them explode.

he might be talking bout utvinc's purple which is between the stock and orange ,

or is that blue im thinking bout with a stripe ?
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 09:23 AM
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UTV inc get a purple spring, spray paints it's blue and puts a white stripe.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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I was talking about EPI springs
Purple is only 5 pounds stiffer than orange
Orange is 190 and 310
Purple is 195 and 315
Wasnt sure if i should go purple since i am leaning towards a 28 inch tire
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 11:25 AM
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The only way to know which one you like best for your vehicle and application is trial and error...there are trade-offs...and what you like best may not be what I like best...

You will not be hurting yourself going with a purple spring over an orange for your tire size...probably won't gain much either...

Also...for any given spring you have to optimize the weights...

If you are not willing to buy the parts for weights and springs needed to "tune" the cvt you will never know if what someone told you to get was just okay...sucks ass...or is ideal...

For a basically stock 660 I would definitely recommend orange/16g if you have rollers not sliders... with 28s you might want 14 or 15g...with orange or purple spring...if you went up to gold spring (definitely going to climb/mud better with those tires) you would want rollers to be at least 15g possibly even 17g-18g...

I would always opt for too heavy a spring and 16g weights with huge/heavy tires in mud or climbing over lighter rollers with softer spring...

We are closed...2013

Last edited by RuttingRhino; 01-27-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuttingRhino View Post
The only way to know which one you like best for your vehicle and application is trial and error...there are trade-offs...and what you like best may not be what I like best...

You will not be hurting yourself going with a purple spring over an orange for your tire size...probably won't gain much either...

Also...for any given spring you have to optimize the weights...

If you are not willing to buy the parts for weights and springs needed to "tune" the cvt you will never know if what someone told you to get was just okay...sucks ass...or is ideal...

For a basically stock 660 I would definitely recommend orange/16g if you have rollers not sliders... with 28s you might want 14 or 15g...with orange or purple spring...if you went up to gold spring (definitely going to climb/mud better with those tires) you would want rollers to be at least 15g possibly even 17g-18g...

I would always opt for too heavy a spring and 16g weights with huge/heavy tires in mud or climbing over lighter rollers with softer spring...
Craig is right, others' recommendations will get you in the ball park, but the ultimate weights and spring will be found through trial and error. Generally speaking the spring will influence the back shifting to a lower gear ratio (hill climbing), and the weight of the rollers or OD weights will control how fast the CVT upshifts (keeping you in the RPM range your motor makes max power). Stiffer the spring, the quicker the back shifting, and the lighter the weights the higher the RPM's to upshift.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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I have a combo of 4 450 rollers and 4 660 rollers that combo creates a 16g roller setup.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:11 PM
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Roo is on top of things as usual...

It sounds like the two things are the same but they are not...they do influence each other heavily...

When lighter weights force the motor to turn higher rpms to make the vehicle up-shift the net effect is similar to lower gearing...

However, power transfer to the wheels can be a lot less with too weak a spring even with the ideal weights for that particular spring...which will NOT be the same ideal weight for a different spring rate...the weights have to be correct to match the vehicle's hp/lb ratio and overall net gearing to the resistance of the secondary...which is controlled by the spring...

The spring also dictates the dynamic range of the cvt overall with all other variables held constant...the stock spring is intended to reach full shift out around 40 mph...a shortened dynamic range...

A spring rate that is too stiff for maximum acceleration would also yield better climbing and better engine braking...and if you have the power at the crankshaft to realize the potential it will increase top speed (increased dynamic range)... but will still require weight optimization and the ideal weight goes up with spring rate...

There will always be a specific spring rate and roller/slider weight combination that will be ideal for any given situation...and of course you have to work with the selectable values available...

Just always remember this...the ultimate goal is to match the overall gearing of the vehicle to the motor for maximum power transfer to the wheels...if you keep that in mind it becomes a simple matter of dialing it in specifically for what you like and do...the CVT is constantly attempting to do that...if the spring rate and roller weight are less than ideal so is the power transfer to the wheels...

Orange spring and stock 16g rollers is never a bad place to be generally...and a no-brainer for a basically stock 660...

Also with those tires you might want to consider a HOT ROD sheave...lower gearing from a stop regardless of other factors and much, much better than using a shim...

Not knocking anyone or their products however I am a naysayer on the shim...regardless of whose sheave it is...

We are closed...2013
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue beast View Post
I have a combo of 4 450 rollers and 4 660 rollers that combo creates a 16g roller setup.
Stock 660 rollers are 16g... not sure what the 450s are...you should weigh them and find out...

The 50/50 mix of two values is the correct way to obtain a value between the two...

If you have 2 sets of weights you have 3 values to choose from...if you have 3 sets of weights you have five values to choose from...

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuttingRhino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue beast View Post
I have a combo of 4 450 rollers and 4 660 rollers that combo creates a 16g roller setup.
Stock 660 rollers are 16g... not sure what the 450s are...you should weigh them and find out...

The 50/50 mix of two values is the correct way to obtain a value between the two...

If you have 2 sets of weights you have 3 values to choose from...if you have 3 sets of weights you have five values to choose from...
with covers?
450 are 14g with covers
i thaught the 660 was 18g with covers
yes i have 2 full sets

from highlifters forum
5GH-17632-00-00 ---400 & 450 Kodiak/Grizzly/Rhino has 12-gram rollers, with cover--14 grams.

5KM-17632-00-00 ---
660 Kodiak/Grizzly/Rhino has 16-gram rollers, with cover----------18 grams.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:50 PM
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I always weigh them with the covers...the covers are installed in the sheave...the total weight of the eight rollers relative to another set is what counts...how much the inserts weigh vs the what the rollers weigh doesn't matter at all...weigh them yourself and see what you have...

Measure all eight together if you want precise values...

The point is use the ones that actually produce the best results...and it is a good thing for you that you have both...

We are closed...2013
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue beast View Post
I have a combo of 4 450 rollers and 4 660 rollers that combo creates a 16g roller setup.
I ran that same combo (15g total) with the UTV purple/white spring, UTV Sheeve w/1mm shim in my 660 with K&N air charger, two bros duel exhaust, & 25x10x12 bajacross tires (30 #'s each)on all four & it worked great for the type of riding I was doing
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:37 PM
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I am running the UTV purple and white stripe spring with 16 gram greaseless. I am also running 28" Swamp witch tires. It does decent but once in some thick mud its straining. I just bought a 1.5mm shim and gonna try it out and see how it does.
I originally thought I was getting a Purple EPI spring but when I got it it was a Purple/white striped spring. Cant even remember if it came in a EPI bag or not. So I think I have the UTV spring.

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